Wednesday, April 20, 2011
New Development - "School of the Apostolic Church"
Christ Church Kirkland is starting it's own college and offering associate degrees in theology. The "School of the Apostolic Church" has Norm for it's president. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he never finished college and doesn't have a BA. Interesting. Here is the link to their website: http://schooloftheapostolicchurch.com/. Check it out and share your thoughts. I have no idea what the requirements are to offer degrees in this state, but I'd love to know.
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1972 was the year Norm graduated from High School and by 1974 he had attended 2 years of Northwest College of the Assemblies of God in Kirkland, and left.
ReplyDeleteI doubt the school is accredited, and it doesn't appear to offer any sort of education that would be recognized by bodies outside their own sphere as having value.
It is a great way to keep folks from entering actual universities to study and obtain well rounded educations from recognized institutions. Masters Comission can only last so long right?
But have no fear, I'm certain the leadership's children will get those recognized well rounded educations, that can get them actual well paying jobs (even though they will most likely just work at the church) - at least they have something to fall back on.
Unfortunately, those grasping at the inner circle and the elusive 'passing lane' will most likely be the first to sign up, to show their commitment.
Norms Super Highway
See above for the 'passing lane' reference.
Maiden
Northwest College - now Northwest University - is accredited.
DeleteOne of the core classes is BS101 :)
ReplyDeleteWow. This is more of a joke than the MCs, CCA, and the School of Pathetic Arts combined. I feel sorry for those who waste their youth on such a "school."
ReplyDeleteI never really had a close tie with CCK to be honest. My parents did, so I was always forced to be somewhat involved with that place. Wellll, I guess I was a bit "into it" when I was little- at least around the ages of 7 or 8 anyway. In the later years, my family was experiencing some pretty big issues and every leader at that church who talked to me assured me that this was "God's plan." Seriously? You know, if you don't have a clue what to say when someone is in a crisis, it might be better not to say anything at all. I was getting sick of hearing CCK's teachings and "isms" as I got older and I then got this erie feeling that all the smiles, "fellowship," and the testimonies were all fake. My parents were convinced by CCK that I just had "the spirit of rebellion upon me." But no, I just thought CCK was insane. I got dragged into the horrid nightmare Youth Group that Eric headed and a few godawful retreats that always left me confused. I eventually just started getting involved with my school JUST so that I could avoid that terrible place- which worked out greatly in so many ways. I honestly wish I could say I left that place, but I tried my best to avoid going there when I could and avoided talking to anyone (too many of those "You aren't right with god! I can sense what he's telling me" moments). I'm sorry if I didn't talk to those of you here, I just didn't want any connections with that church.
Cck is a split from Seattle
DeleteI got halfway though Norm's Super Highway video and about gagged. Seriously, when will they realize they don't own the inside corner of real estate in Christianity. There's such a lack of humility and passion for the lost - its truly about their own gain & success. They're not the only church like this, there are others out there too. In the end, its God who will judge the motivation of men's hearts, whether it was for selfish gain and to build man's kingdom or whether to give God glory & save the lost:
ReplyDeleteMatthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"
They split from Seattle
DeleteThis place (CCK) breaks my heart. I see people being sucked into what they think is truth ... because there are elements of truth in what is being said. BUT the foundation is faulty. It is a house of cards. A house of cards can continue to be built upward to a certain point and then it all comes crashing down. You know who gets crushed when a building falls? The people at the bottom. The ones whom have been used to build upon.
ReplyDeleteNorms words are that the current leaders will stay safe in the tent and not on the front lines because they own the strategy and that it will take everyone else to be "all in" to build. It's the same idea in slavery. Send the workers to the field, build on their backs, break them, but allow the slave owner to sit comfortably in their plantation and reap the benefits ($$$$). PEOPLE AT CCK - DO YOU NOT SEE THAT YOU ARE A SLAVE TO LEADERS, THEIR VISION, THEIR PLANS, THEIR REWARDS?
My heart aches because we all desire to be a part of something greater than ourselves. It's inherent in our design to draw us to a loving God who is bigger than we are. It isn't about churches, universities, schools, leaders, being known! From the beginning of time the Enemy has taken that inherent design and perverted it ... the knowledge of good and evil (something greater than Adam and Eve where at the time).
When a leader walks in the dark, and covers his sin, and leads from a place of sin, the leading direction is not that of the Lord. God says he cannot dwell with sin. NORM and others whom he leads with have hidden their sin for decades. Truth is truth. It does not change with the passing seasons. Norm is not leading with God's direction. He is leading with the perversion of our inherent design to be a part of something bigger than ourselves. Whether he knows it or not this is what he is doing. All that is produced from this kind of leading is slaves. It's history repeating it's self.
I am praying for an awakening in CCK. That those who attend would wake up and hear the voice of God. This is not a game! False prophecy is not a game. Mixed truth is not a game. Trying to be known is not a game.
NO WHERE IN THE ENTIRE MESSAGE OF THE VIDEO POSTED ABOVE DOES NORM MENTION THAT WE DO WHAT WE DO TO BRING GLORY TO THE LIVING GOD WHO CREATED US AND DIED FOR US. WHAT IS THE POINT?!
They are a splinter group because norm ex heroin dealer wanted power like all dealers do. This way he doing go to jail. Many trips to England and his car was painted red are Church expense
DeleteStill waiting for the voice of God. Haven't heard it. No more excuses. God isn't real. He is made up by man to control other man.
DeleteNorms superhighway sermon, really wasn't a sermon at all was it? But I'm guessing that's fairly common. He makes random statements that are supposed to be 'enlightened' but are really just restructured verbiage constructed to sound intelligent and inspired. Don’t you just throw up a little in your mouth about mid way through?
ReplyDeleteSome quotes sent to me – spelling/grammar Norms, not mine
"In the mean time" the mean time is the time between promise and provision. It need not be mean if you fix your eyes on Jesus.
"Every would be religion has a god who is transcendent. Only Christianity has a God who at the same time is also immanent. God came down"
"Most opportunity takes place at the intersection of the unexpected and the interrupted."
"Compassion will alwyas produce incarnation. The higher we go in life the more sensitive we should become to the needs of others."
"Intimacy with God will always produce mercy toward man. Mercy triumphs judgment."
"You can become great without mercy but you will not stay great. Greatness is sustained by mercy."
"Remember not to forget who you are.If familiarity neutralizes the big picture we lose the motivation to master the daily details...Remember"
"Negativity is a braodcast frequency. Negativity is "the sound" of darkness. If you attract negative people check what you are broadcasting."
"God allows crisis to set the stage for opportunity. Opportunity brings for Him a greater glory and for us a better story."
"Whatever your circumstance make room for redemption. Self pity is the consequential result of one who doesnt make room for redemption."
"Reposition. Out of the strength of your past the Lord repositions you for the future. Future hope is tied to being repositioned now."
"Reckon yourselves dead to bitterness. Reckoning is the spirit of man informing the mind of man that the will of man is no longer in charge"
"Bitterness is a thief that steals reality and leaves behind false perceptions that redefine true realities into false conclusions."
"How can people hate someone they love so much...bitter root judgements...hate them or they will make a hater of you."
"Intercession without expectation is just conversation. When we make arrangements for what we pray we possess what we pray."
"In an ever increasing Kingdom where increase is a fundamental expectation forgetfulness is certain defeat. Remember whose you are."
"Perfect love casts out the fear of correction. When the mandate is to reform correction is a sign of advance not loss."
"Fear is the evidence of unbelief; belief is the evidence of no fear. The moment we choose to belive is the moment fear must flee."
"Familiarity is a thief. The nature of its thievery is not to steal but to veil. It doesnt need to steal possessions if it veils their value."
Passing the chuck bucket to the next reader.
Maiden
Are they gonna let me tell my story
DeleteDear Maiden,
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting these! What a garbled bunch of baloney! So glad I don't have to listen to this nonsense every week!
Norms car used to be orange but at church expense after a trip to England with Marci it's red!
DeleteYour welcome Seeker.
ReplyDeleteThe church fads really got to me. I'd be minding my own business (literally taking care of my business) waiting for a stall in the ladies room when you'd hear someone say 'So what's your spiritual name?'.
All I could think of was 'oh crap' I have to come up with a freaking spiritual name.
So I'd listen to the ladies prattle on about what name 'god had given them' and get the gist of how it worked.
Then I had to come up with something that sounded good, with a nice back story (which is really how they came up with theirs - they just can't admit it).
The diets, the fads and crazes, every month it was something different I had to do.
What are the fads and crazes you went through at CCK?
Maiden
One day I accidentally walked n2 the room where they were counting the money because I was a youth group leader and had left my purse but did not know that's where they count the money. They looked at me like they were gonna kill me and said things I can't remember but I was so intimidated!
DeleteI know this article is about the apostolic school, but let me comment on a few things about CCA. I went to CCA for 3 years, (at the church for longer), and while it helped me to acquire great study habits, all it did was wear me out. We have no time to take vacations, and the only vacation we take is family camp during the summer because that is expected and that is the most we could afford to do b/c of the price
ReplyDeleteThey also wanted to start a university. CCU I believe.
Another note on cca, it is NOT accredited. Even though Marcy told us it would be no problem transferring to a different highschool, when we moved, we got the news from my new school that they weren't. We called, and an office person got on the phone and said they weren't because they didn't want to deal with the county's private school regulations. ( I'm not going to name people) I am having to make up 2 years of highschool!
It's been over a year since I've moved, and I am in the best relationship with Jesus that I've ever been in, and I don't currently go to church. You don't have to go to be a Christian. Yes, we are encouraged to fellowship, but that doesn't mean we have to do it in a church. It could be lunch in a restaurant, or a day in the park.
I think about them everyday, Praying that they would truly see the light. I miss my classmates, but they don't want any contact. I do my best to let it go.
My daughter Heather best their son at memorizing scripture and they got mad. She was 1st grade and he was 6th
DeleteYou had to make up two years of High School - oh I'm sooooo sorry. Do you have to take a GED test to graduate from CCA?
ReplyDeleteI am one of the original graduates of CCA although it was not called that when it started. I was given a diploma but I got my GED due to the fact I was sick my entire junior year and they told me I would not graduate because I missed too much time. I made a deal, they give me the diploma if I passed the GED. Reading J's comment makes me so angry and relieved that I did that. Years later I went back to college. Imagine how surprised I would have been to find out my diploma was worthless. My fellow graduate (there were only two of us) never has gone to college. She did MC and interned and then married and had children like a good CCK woman does. I loved her so much and she was one of the smartest people I knew. Had huge dreams of being a teacher, traveling until CCK took hold and determined her whole life. There are still so many I care about who are still there. They continue to be abused. I have forgiven them for the hurt they caused me, but I will never forget. I pray often God will open the eyes of those I love. If anyone from CCK reads this. Do not think your staying there will bring change. You cannont convince someone that they are wrong and not acting as God asks us, when they truly believe everything they are doing is of God. Not to mention they tell you they will hear the Holy Spirit on your behalf. The most dangerous abuse is one that masks itself as love.
ReplyDeleteMonica
Monica no worries
DeleteSo I came upon this page and after reading everything, I can't help but notice the tone of everything you all are saying. From the mockery and the blatant misunderstanding of how God works in our sorrows, to the admitting of not being in church now and seeing nothing wrong with it and really the whole purpose of this blog, I can't help but question the heart motive beyond all of this. I am not a member of this church, however, I am a christian and know that it is not God's heart to cause such slander to anyone. The God that we all claim to serve is big enough to deal with wolves and our fight is a spiritual one done in prayer not in the physical world through slander. So if you really feel that this church is not healthy then may I exhort you to Christ like behavior by ending this gossip/slander fest and head to your closet where you might actually make a difference. Saying you are praying about it and then coming on here to slander their name is basically saying that God isn't big enough to bring revelation in a healthy way. I might caution you with this..Proverbs 6:16-19...that the Lord despises one who sows discord among brothers. You might say this church is guilty of some of the things in the passage but you beloved are no different. This blog is discord at its best. Trust God to close the doors if he wants them closed. If he divinely connects you with people and allows you to warn them gently and without slander than do so. But know that everything you are doing here is not scriptural, it is not born from love and anything that is not born of love is not born of God.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more, thank you.
DeleteFirst of all, I am very active in a church and have said that from the beginning. The scripture warns strongly about sheep among wolves and about shepherd's being held accountable. Many of us have addressed these issues with them directly repeatedly before feeling that we had no choice but to leave. Unless you've been in a cult-like, mind-control church like this one you probably cannot understand. Try reading the whole blog and listen to what we have to say before popping off with your judgments.
DeleteOh, and my motive is two-fold. I want to warn people before they get involved with this church or another one like it and I hope that those who are there and feeling trapped know that if they leave, life will go on and they can find freedom and follow Christ and find leaders who lead rather than coerce.
DeleteI think you should go to cck for a year or 2 and then tell us all what u think
DeleteThis person is the kind that lets abuse continue for years. This person sounds like a Catholic
DeleteYeah or just don't believe in God, or go to church. That's another option.
DeleteYour arrogance and ignorance are astounding. Do you honestly think you are in a position to judge people you do not know on the basis a few blog posts? Or that we should all be lumped into one category? Do you think the telling the truth is slander? Slander, by definition is an untrue statement. We have only told the truth.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any clue how much actual slander we have endured for daring to leave this abusive church? How many lies have been spread about us to keep those still in the church from listening to what we have to say?
Do you think that we have not prayed about this? Do you think that we have not taken opportunities to "gently warn" people? I love the people in that church, and if this blog helps them to break free from spiritual abuse, that is definitely of God.
They physically assaulted me in front of the whole church who erupted in applause
DeleteYou seem to get awfully defensive over people making valid statements that contrast to yours. If you truly want to make a difference, listen to people's opinion, don't be overbearing. Why do you bash people and call someone ignorant and arrogant? If you want to set a good example, start by not following in the footsteps of those you claim to be wrong; you claim that Norm can't accept with humility or let alone accept a problem at all when it's presented to him. Don't be hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteWriting a blog that is not verifiable by any source other than 'anonymous' and some quotes out of context will not help you. I understand where everyone is coming from, but if you want people to listen, than do as the bible says: "Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger." - James 1:19
Are you serious? Norm is an arrogant egoistical greedy power hungry liar along with his wife Marci and if you don't do what they want they kick you out calling you unsubmissive, ungrateful, and unteachable. Oh, you don't know me? You will! And norm and Marci and the rest including bellyuptothebarnettes will be nationally televised
DeleteFirst of all, I'd like to point out that your comments are anonymous as well, so I'm not sure why you have a problem with my anonymity. If you read the entire blog, I've explained why I've made that choice.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you were incredibly quick to judge all of us when you claim to have no knowledge of CCK or any of us. You expressed your supposedly uninformed opinion and I defended myself and the people who have shared very personal and painful experiences with others on this blog.
I started this blog for two reasons: One: I wanted to give people a chance to speak up after years of abuse. Two: To serve as another voice to those who are in the church and feeling trapped and to warn those who may be looking for a church. CCK is an abusive church and unless you've come out of one, you have no idea what it's like or the damage it does to you. It seems very clear that you don't even want to try to understand.
If this blog offends you, you are not required to read it.
I wasn't the one to f over and kick out because....
DeleteI think that Seeker and the previous Anonymous have good points.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is easy to vent frustrations (which is perfectly fine), it is hard to tell where that person is coming from.
I do agree, however, with Seeker's intentions on writing this blog. It does give a place for people to share their experience, or to "speak up." And yes, if someone had no connections to CCK said to cool off after something so life-changing happened (as it has to many of us), I would be defensive.
But I will say this: Don't let this blog continue on out of the anger or frustration of what has gone on, but rather a passion to see something done about it, or a passion to see others set free.
God has the ultimate plan. Sometimes we have to put it in God's hands, and sometimes we have to fight.
I can't wait
DeleteDo you attend CCK Anonymous. I won't deny the sense of belonging is strong, and the heart of so many is chock full of everything you could ever want in a friend - they really love God, and they want to do good.
ReplyDeleteWe're not talking about the mainstream everyday churchgoing person here. It's not the people that are bad. They think God has revealed himself in the gibberish that Norm spouts (and honestly, if you actually step back, you can begin to see it).
Norms whacky 'relate this crazy saying to something spiritual and never understood by human minds' and let everyone be fed spiritually my new Sunday catchphrase The church has developed their own language, and jargon because this occurance is so commonplace. They've developed a way of pulling together random phrases in the bible and relating to say 'a hammer'. The 'hammer' then takes on some spiritual meaning, and the actual use of the hammer in real life, is related to random passages in the Bible, and now takes on a completely spiritual meaning, fraught with Biblical inaccuracies and incomplete truths.
If Norm allows the wind to blow - it all tumbles down - he can't have that. So if you want to talk, or think rationally, its threatening, and threats are dealt with by....discrediting them, pitching them out, humiliating them etc etc.,
The problem is, there's now the false prophet. It can say anything it wants, because its a painting, or a dance, or a word of exhortation, a video, a jpg. But is it true just because it's pretty and is well intentioned?
Sorry Rambling,
Must get off to church
Maiden
Thanks to all of you and your comments...am now attending a church that is planning on being part of KMI!! I think (o no) I must follow Paul's advice in II Timothy and II Peter's advice as well as Jude's advice re:
ReplyDeletefalse teachers and prophets.
I don't envy you. That's a tough position to be in. I pray for God to give you wisdom. I'm curious about how you found this blog. Were you having doubt and googling relevant items, or did you stumble on to it?
ReplyDeleteSeeker... Yes I binged CCK and found this blog. I usually like to hear the other side of the story as it usually gives creds to or against. You all come off credible in your discussions using other source matl. ie. newspaper articles, in the postings. I thank you for this. The Church that is Christ's needs to be warned of falsehood in the guise of truth so we don't continue down the Wide Path that leads to Destruction.
ReplyDeleteAgain, thanks for the warnings, as for me and mine we will serve the Lord.
JS