But I am going to mention another reason. Many of us have tried talking to Norm and other leaders at CCK about our concerns. Some many years in the past, and some very recently. Some of us have tried repeatedly. What many of us have found is that leaders of CCK then make us the target. We are told that our motives are wrong, that we are betrayers, that we are damaging their ministry, and so forth. They never address our issues or acknowledge any wrongdoing on their part. In logic, this is a fallacy called an ad hominem defense. It means that you never address the problem, but you attack the character of the person pointing out the problem. Attacking the messenger doesn't change the message.
It is quite easy to point out that someone has sin in their life. We all do. It is an easy strategy if all you want to do is deflect someone's questions. We all were trained that our pastors are our authorities, so we often walked away in tears from these conversations, feeling beaten down and convinced that we were wrong for questioning them in the first place.
Later, when we've had time to reflect on these conversations, we realize that we were attacked for trying to follow Matthew 18. I was always taught that if someone comes to you with a concern, that if even 2% of what they had to say was accurate, we should repent for that 2%, not that we should attack the person showing concern. I have never witnessed a pastor at CCK repenting for anything.
In some cases, we not only have our concerns ignored and our character attacked, we find that the leaders are now using us as scapegoats and spreading lies about us. One of the reasons I choose to remain anonymous is because I know that if my name were on here, the leaders of CCK would simply try to find out everything in my life that is lacking and use that to discredit not only what I have to say, but what anyone who posts on here tries to say.
You can agree or disagree, but please know that I am speaking from very personal experiences and that I have talked to many people who have had the same experiences.
I'm willing to bet that many of who are still at CCK have had similar exchanges. You repented. You concluded that you must be wrong. You learned to accept whatever it was that you worried about. You learned to keep your mouth shut. Or maybe you were told bad things about the person who talked to you about their concerns. You decided that it was too costly to speak up and you couldn't imagine leaving so you justified staying. CCK is your community. Maybe your job is there. Maybe your family goes there. Most of your friends go there. So you go along to get along. Think about it.
You see people leave and you feel sorry for them or think they are lost. Don't feel sorry for us. We are free. I have a church and I love the Lord, but I no longer have a corrupt leader telling me how live my life. I am not about to open myself up to more personal attacks from Norm or anyone else at CCK.
AMEN!!!! WELL SAID!!
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing the truth so well
ReplyDeleteCouldn't have said it better myself.
ReplyDeleteWell Said! This is also my experience, all-be-it a long time ago but it doesn't sound like much has changed with regards to this issue.
ReplyDeleteBy putting my name on my posts I realize that I will be written off by most if not all of those at CCK and the leaders. People will go to my parents or the leaders maybe with questions and they will be lied to so that those leaders and my parents may protect their own sin. It's a necessary evil they believe to be best for the whole. I expect that. My hope in adding my name is that those of you who knew me and left and wondered what happened will finally know my side. I have kept quit for far too long at the expense, I see, of many other's having to go through similar circumstances. Secondly, for those who are new to the church and don't know me and still have the ability to question, I hope you hear the warning, the dark side to a church that at first encounter seems so wonderful. The truth doesn't reveal it's self in this church until you are deeply involved and it has become your life - literally... then the decision to approach the issues or leave carries a weight that is almost indescribable. It becomes so difficult because all that you know and every relationship you have becomes the noose around your neck. It feels as if it will kill you to leave... but if I can encourage you... there is abundant life outside the walls of CCK. God is waiting to free you.
For those of you who think I am bitter and lost... you couldn't be more wrong but I have no desire to convince you of that. To those of you who don't know me... ask anything you like. You will find in me an open book full of my own mistakes and the lessons learned with belonging to an authoritarian, controlling, shaming, manipulative church and school. I wish you the best in your search for what is real and true.
Wow...! I stumbled across this blog (or did the HS direct me?) and am astounded. I mean, it's like "de javu all over again". I feel like I've been in a time capsule since the mid-eighties and was just released. It grieves me and shocks me to think this crap is still going on in just a different location but with the same methodology. The same play with different actors. My family and I along with literally hundreds of others were subjected to the manipulation and spiritual abuse of this "stream" of leadership in the church. Fortunately for us, we were able to escape from CCN in about 1985 but not without a cost. We were labeled as "unteachable" and put on a no contact list. Many of our best friends were pressured to shun us. For us, it felt like a divorce as we had been at the church for many years. Our kids grew up there. Virtually all of our significant friendships were nurtured there.
ReplyDeleteTo be sure, it didn't start out in heresy. In the early days, the teaching came from the "Word"; the leadership was approachable; the pastors pastored and for me as a new believer, it was a joyful place to grow in my new found faith. One could have frank conversations with Pastor Hamann. He would occasionally visit one's home - he was in ours twice. We were even guests in his home on a couple of occasions. But it slowly morphed into something no longer joyful as leadership succumbed to the sins of pride and lust for power. We would see people leaving and would be told various stories about them so that church leadership would be absolved. And we didn't know what was really behind the departures. I'll admit that it took me too long to finally start to take issue with teachings which were counter to scripture and begin to ask questions. That did not set well. We had been warned by many who had left that as long as we would go along with the program, we would have no trouble. But if you dare to question authority, the hammer would come down on us too.
The hammer came down on us in a meeting in Pastor Hamann's office prompted by him. He was scolding us for not getting involved in a home group after the one we had been involved in for years was dissolved. The home group leaders were having some marital difficulties so their group was shut down and they were put on the back shelf rather than being supported and ministered to. That seemed to be a recurring pattern at that time - to kill the wounded (hey, at least they didn't eat 'em). When that topic came up in Jim's office and I defended the home group leader and questioned the church's actions, the room became very uncomfortable. The final straw for Jim was when I told him that God had shown me that the leadership was no longer leading the flock of God but was behind it driving it. They had traded the staff for a rod. Jim stood to his feet and stood over me as he was want to do to intimidate. There was rage in his eyes as he said that we should leave CCN. It took us a few weeks to leave because we stubbornly believed that we were to stay. One Sunday God chased us out with a sermon delivered by Dennis Peacock (Is he still around?). It was a rambling mess having no scriptual foundation and was negative and judgemental. That was enough. We were out of there.
We had heard rumors that this stuff was going on at CCK but frankly couldn't believe it. We wanted to believe that they had grown beyond this because, though we've never been involved with CCK, we have a number of friends from CCN attending there. It appears that they are still preying on co-dependent hurting people.
As for us today, the living God has healed our wounds and hired us to work in His harvest. We are active in His church. We still love Pastor Hamann and have forgiven him. I acknowledge that I owe him a debt of gratitude for many years of sound teaching which has given me a love for the Lord and has sustained my faith. But I would never consider being in his patoral care again. Thank you for allowing me to share.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It's hard to believe it could go on for so long. Very sad.
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ReplyDeleteThe root of a plant comes from stock that is healthy and/or unhealthy. Many roots are healthy with "our" history. But there is also a history of teaching dating BEFORE sheaparding / discipleship from the Latter Day Rain movement and before, that seems not of sound doctrine. Tracing such "streams" reveal sins of our fathers / past generational sins that have carried through the "movement" until now. Such doctrine of old bread pride, non biblical authority, elitism, isolation, legalism and allot more. This appears not new to "our stream" if you follow it back in time. Things may have started going south with some poor teaching and "revelations" in the early 1900's and then again in the 1940's and 50's with manifest sons of God and latter day rain teachings. If you desire more I can point you to some names of men and places where this may seemed to taken hold. These assumptions of truth affect some of our churches even today especially in Word of Faith, Prosperity, Five Fold ministry restoration, Prophetic and Discipleship movements of the 70's, 80's and 90's. But you can also do your own research by tracing back the history of the "latter day rain", "manifest sons of God" and "restoration" movements. While we do not refer to such phrases or language today, you will find many of the results and outward hurts/events being experienced today may be the results of inward basic unhealthy doctrines of old.
ReplyDeleteMy heart aches when I read that. I too was "scolded" by Jim Hammond in the 80's. I had the gall to question my "Home Group Leader". He was doing weird stuff and I asked where his motivation was? Jim called my wife and I into his office.(I don't think he knew my name prior to that meeting). He promply said we were there so he could take our spiritual temperature? What? Really? It came down to get with the program or get out. He stated, "You know... there are other churches in Seattle". Ahhh Ok.. I never went back. It took years to get over that. I felt betrayed. Abanded... It was, however, my fault. I will never again put man before God. Man will fail you. Betray you. God.. will not. It taught me to focus on God... not man.
ReplyDeleteI so sorry that you experienced that. So very sad, but all too common. I, too, am so glad to be free. I'm glad to hear you have found way to focus on God, as we all should.
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