I would strongly suggest the comments that were posted on the blog, along with the original blog posted by Norm Willis be posted here. It was after all Norm's blog that got people commenting!
I suffered years of guilt after leaving. I left because I was losing my faith by staying. In fact I felt more persecuted inside that church than outside. I was shunned for not wanting to go though "courtship" as soon as I started "dating.” I would bring people who needed healing and love but they would tell me they were made to feel like they were projects and that members there seemed to have a sense of entitlement and superiority. In the end I decided that I could not follow something that didn't help people but just brought them more pain. I should have taken a hint when I first got there. Others not involved in the Masters Commission program would try to prove themselves against those who had gone through the program as if they knew they were considered less. Women sit waiting for the right man who is willing to go through all the "steps" to even be able to ask about where she stands concerning him. What guy could even stand under that pressure and then be willing to go through all the authority and rules required to see if it works. I remember a time while I was in Masters Commission that the class was divided and the half of us who stood up against what we saw were personally pulled aside and disciplined. The leadership went down the line and literally told each of us what was wrong with us and how we basically didn't come up to par or have and right or validity to our claims. We were silenced boldly in front of each other and that was that. Those allowed to lead in the class by encouragement and support of the leadership were those who bought the lies and lived them most. A common phrase used was that they wanted to scrub our minds. Literally brain wash us and it wasn't even hidden or covert but admitted to with pride. If I didn't talk "their" talk or walk "their" walk I was made to feel guilty and having been in MC and knowing 400 of the members by name I was surprised to see how easily forgotten I was. I mean I averaged 5 hours of sleep a night that year... we would work 15 hour days for Microsoft trade shows without ever seeing a dime... it was said to be supplementing our tuition costs and teaching us a servant’s heart. The employer said it was 17/hr but it all went to the program and I heard in later years that a girl actually coughed blood from sheer physical exhaustion and stress due to work and lack of sleep. I'm not sure but I think she was offered a brief repose before being required to work with the rest again as before. Host families are required to make the student work at least 3 hours at home aside from the work done at the church. Although mine made me work closer to 4 hours cleaning the entire house top to bottom include all the linens and hand scrubbing the floors with different specific soaps for each floor and using a towel after each few feet to preserve the hard wood on an over 500,000 home in a community with judges, pilots and Microsoft exec's.
Its pull is subtle and appealing at first promising a deeper spiritual walk and even moments of great worship and teaching. I'm sure they mean well but they don't realize how the rest of society can't keep up with their standards when pushed beyond what God is doing in his "church" as a whole. I believe they are trying to exert their own will and see things happen in "Mans" time rather than Gods. Its not about "not listening to rock music" and banning it from their school.. in fact enforcing that with punishment." Its not about all the don't do this or that's, don't date, don't etc. But what we are supposed to do is Love One another as Christ loved us and "gave himself up for her." Perhaps an example from the leadership of this would transform the flock more.. but of course there is enough said here about how much Norm and Marcy really "give up" for their flock. It speaks for itself.
I just received this link to this blog....WOW I know several families who left in 1993-1995 who were effected by everthing WORD for WORD you are talking about...Praise God this is being brought into the LIGHT.
Dear anonymous former MC, Thank you for sharing your story. When I was in MC's I went to the doctor after being home sick several days in pain and exhausted. When I described the schedule I was keeping my doctor advised me it was not healthy and it was no wonder I was so sick. I am sorry you felt guilt after leaving. I did too. They know just how to get inside you to cause enough doubt that you feel you have to believe what they are saying is true. I can't tell you how often I had leaders pray over me what they thought was going on in my life. Instead of saying to someone that they are concerned they mask their own feelings by saying it is from God and in that how can we question them if what they are saying is from God? I have news for you people God can handle our questions and concerns. He is faithful. It says not to tempt God. It says nothing about questioning him. Even Jesus questioned his own Father when praying in the Garden. Please keep coming forward people. The healing is happening. Lets keep it going.
This is such a wonderful blog. I have been holding this in for a long time now. I was a member of CCK. I went to family camps and youth camps, and during one Youth Group I was overcome by the feeling of His presence. I went up to a leader and said "I want to do more". I got involved in Extreme Team and became (In my eyes) a vital part of the church.
However, at one point I was asked to become a part of the Christ Church Academy, because my I went to Public school and my family was Atheist. At the time I was ASB president, Honor Society president, on the varsity softball and basketball team, ran the school food drive, and my father was dying of lung cancer... I needed God.
But after asking my family to start paying for school and change my lifestyle (which I did ask) and informed a leader that, "I guess I'll have to pass". I was IMMEDIATELY asked to take a "time out" from CCK, because I was not a good representation.
I never went back.
I never went back to any church, I have no faith in church, I have faith in God. I think that is an insult to the kind and caring people of this world that do good deads to other living creatures in the name of God, to make money off Him and make good people feel like dirt.
Hey, Romy. I remember being in youth group with you, although we weren't close friends. I think it was more of an age gap thing going on there. It is interesting to hear your story. I'm not too surprised - either that it happened, that I didn't know about it then or at your ultimate response to it. Ideally, a leader in the church should consider your position and think, "Wow! She has a place of authority in so many different facets of her school. How can I help her to be a Godly example to all those around her?" Unfortunately, that didn't happen. There's not much to say, really, but I will just throw out there that there are better churches. I hope that you are able to find some level of Christian camaraderie, if you haven't already.
Interesting stuff you guys. It seems the darkness of the MC has driven you closer into a real relationship with God and a strong faith in Jesus Christ. True character is forged in the fire of tribulation. The love and support you show eachother is awesome!
I went to CCK''s sister church Christ Church Of Northgate in the late 70's and early 1980's. I must say I met some wonderful people there, a few of which my brother and I are in contact with to this day.as I see it, what happened to CCN, is something that happens in a lot of churches. It was once a good church that lost focus and got sidetracked by materialism and became control happy as well. Even when our family was still in good standing, there, I could the signs that something was off. The church had it's own mini fleet of C adillacs that the pastors drove. And the church leadership got into the habit of squashing any Bible studies that it's members started on the side. Including my own high school Sunday school teacher. He was eventually removed as a Sunday school teacher. Which was too bad because he and his wife were wonderful people and great teachers too. My time there ended and in the early eighties when my Mom had a falling out with one of the assistant pastors. He retaliated by publicly shaming our whole family in front his mid-week congregation that he taught. Thankfully, I found another church that didn't make any of the mistakes that CCN, and CCK has. My experience at CCN turned out to be a life's lesson that in the end, made me stronger and gave invaluable experience that I've carried with me to this day.
I would strongly suggest the comments that were posted on the blog, along with the original blog posted by Norm Willis be posted here. It was after all Norm's blog that got people commenting!
ReplyDeleteIt is now posted under, "Why this blog."
ReplyDeleteSeeker,
ReplyDeleteI commend you for starting this. I can't help but wonder if I know you?
I suffered years of guilt after leaving. I left because I was losing my faith by staying. In fact I felt more persecuted inside that church than outside. I was shunned for not wanting to go though "courtship" as soon as I started "dating.” I would bring people who needed healing and love but they would tell me they were made to feel like they were projects and that members there seemed to have a sense of entitlement and superiority. In the end I decided that I could not follow something that didn't help people but just brought them more pain. I should have taken a hint when I first got there. Others not involved in the Masters Commission program would try to prove themselves against those who had gone through the program as if they knew they were considered less. Women sit waiting for the right man who is willing to go through all the "steps" to even be able to ask about where she stands concerning him. What guy could even stand under that pressure and then be willing to go through all the authority and rules required to see if it works. I remember a time while I was in Masters Commission that the class was divided and the half of us who stood up against what we saw were personally pulled aside and disciplined. The leadership went down the line and literally told each of us what was wrong with us and how we basically didn't come up to par or have and right or validity to our claims. We were silenced boldly in front of each other and that was that. Those allowed to lead in the class by encouragement and support of the leadership were those who bought the lies and lived them most. A common phrase used was that they wanted to scrub our minds. Literally brain wash us and it wasn't even hidden or covert but admitted to with pride. If I didn't talk "their" talk or walk "their" walk I was made to feel guilty and having been in MC and knowing 400 of the members by name I was surprised to see how easily forgotten I was. I mean I averaged 5 hours of sleep a night that year... we would work 15 hour days for Microsoft trade shows without ever seeing a dime... it was said to be supplementing our tuition costs and teaching us a servant’s heart. The employer said it was 17/hr but it all went to the program and I heard in later years that a girl actually coughed blood from sheer physical exhaustion and stress due to work and lack of sleep. I'm not sure but I think she was offered a brief repose before being required to work with the rest again as before. Host families are required to make the student work at least 3 hours at home aside from the work done at the church. Although mine made me work closer to 4 hours cleaning the entire house top to bottom include all the linens and hand scrubbing the floors with different specific soaps for each floor and using a towel after each few feet to preserve the hard wood on an over 500,000 home in a community with judges, pilots and Microsoft exec's.
ReplyDeleteIts pull is subtle and appealing at first promising a deeper spiritual walk and even moments of great worship and teaching. I'm sure they mean well but they don't realize how the rest of society can't keep up with their standards when pushed beyond what God is doing in his "church" as a whole. I believe they are trying to exert their own will and see things happen in "Mans" time rather than Gods. Its not about "not listening to rock music" and banning it from their school.. in fact enforcing that with punishment." Its not about all the don't do this or that's, don't date, don't etc. But what we are supposed to do is Love One another as Christ loved us and "gave himself up for her." Perhaps an example from the leadership of this would transform the flock more.. but of course there is enough said here about how much Norm and Marcy really "give up" for their flock. It speaks for itself.
I just received this link to this blog....WOW
ReplyDeleteI know several families who left in 1993-1995
who were effected by everthing WORD for WORD you are talking about...Praise God this is being brought into the LIGHT.
Dear anonymous former MC,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your story. When I was in MC's I went to the doctor after being home sick several days in pain and exhausted. When I described the schedule I was keeping my doctor advised me it was not healthy and it was no wonder I was so sick. I am sorry you felt guilt after leaving. I did too. They know just how to get inside you to cause enough doubt that you feel you have to believe what they are saying is true. I can't tell you how often I had leaders pray over me what they thought was going on in my life. Instead of saying to someone that they are concerned they mask their own feelings by saying it is from God and in that how can we question them if what they are saying is from God? I have news for you people God can handle our questions and concerns. He is faithful. It says not to tempt God. It says nothing about questioning him. Even Jesus questioned his own Father when praying in the Garden. Please keep coming forward people. The healing is happening. Lets keep it going.
This is such a wonderful blog. I have been holding this in for a long time now. I was a member of CCK. I went to family camps and youth camps, and during one Youth Group I was overcome by the feeling of His presence. I went up to a leader and said "I want to do more". I got involved in Extreme Team and became (In my eyes) a vital part of the church.
ReplyDeleteHowever, at one point I was asked to become a part of the Christ Church Academy, because my I went to Public school and my family was Atheist. At the time I was ASB president, Honor Society president, on the varsity softball and basketball team, ran the school food drive, and my father was dying of lung cancer... I needed God.
But after asking my family to start paying for school and change my lifestyle (which I did ask) and informed a leader that, "I guess I'll have to pass". I was IMMEDIATELY asked to take a "time out" from CCK, because I was not a good representation.
I never went back.
I never went back to any church, I have no faith in church, I have faith in God. I think that is an insult to the kind and caring people of this world that do good deads to other living creatures in the name of God, to make money off Him and make good people feel like dirt.
Hey, Romy. I remember being in youth group with you, although we weren't close friends. I think it was more of an age gap thing going on there. It is interesting to hear your story. I'm not too surprised - either that it happened, that I didn't know about it then or at your ultimate response to it. Ideally, a leader in the church should consider your position and think, "Wow! She has a place of authority in so many different facets of her school. How can I help her to be a Godly example to all those around her?" Unfortunately, that didn't happen. There's not much to say, really, but I will just throw out there that there are better churches. I hope that you are able to find some level of Christian camaraderie, if you haven't already.
ReplyDeleteInteresting stuff you guys. It seems the darkness of the MC has driven you closer into a real relationship with God and a strong faith in Jesus Christ. True character is forged in the fire of tribulation. The love and support you show eachother is awesome!
ReplyDeleteI went to CCK''s sister church Christ Church Of Northgate in the late 70's and early 1980's. I must say I met some wonderful people there, a few of which my brother and I are in contact with to this day.as I see it, what happened to CCN, is something that happens in a lot of churches. It was once a good church that lost focus and got sidetracked by materialism and became control happy as well. Even when our family was still in good standing, there, I could the signs that something was off. The church had it's own mini fleet of C adillacs that the pastors drove. And the church leadership got into the habit of squashing any Bible studies that it's members started on the side. Including my own high school Sunday school teacher. He was eventually removed as a Sunday school teacher. Which was too bad because he and his wife were wonderful people and great teachers too.
ReplyDeleteMy time there ended and in the early eighties when my Mom had a falling out with one of the assistant pastors. He retaliated by publicly shaming our whole family in front his mid-week congregation that he taught. Thankfully, I found another church that didn't make any of the mistakes that CCN, and CCK has. My experience at CCN turned out to be a life's lesson that in the end, made me stronger and gave invaluable experience that I've carried with me to this day.